I spoke to the prominent Conservative Europsceptic John Redwood, MP for Wokingham, about what his party should do to avoid a repeat of yesterday's defeat in the Rochester and Strood by-election.
What do you think contributed to your party's defeat in Rochester and Strood? Firstly it was a by-election, so people weren't voting to change the government, just voting about an individual MP. Secondly of course they were being invited to re-elect a former Conservative MP who they knew quite well.The most interesting feature of the by-election was the great sense of dissatisfaction everywhere with the two main parties and the Lib Dems, and the theory that they are all the same on the key issues, most notably immigration.Why don't voters believe David Cameron can control immigration? In the by-election people are just saying “we hope [Cameron] gets the message... we remember that the Tory party offered to get immigration down to tens of thousands rather than hundreds of thousands before the last election and in government they have not done so.” To which the answer is, of course, [that] we have been in a coalition government and we haven't been able to tackle the european issue in coalition government.
So you predict, come May, that the constituency may well swing back to the Conservatives? That's what I hope and what I hope to achieve.
What does your party need to stress in the run-up to the general election? I think the building blocks are already in place. The decisive change in Conservative policy came in the Bloomberg speech, when for the first time since Harold Wilson a leader said the relationship with Europe is not working to Britain's interests, it needs to be changed, and that we the Conservatives will negotiate change. Then, if necessary, we will leave if we don't get the changes that we want.
The next thing thats going to happen—that's been planned anyway—is a speech by Cameron setting out what a conservative government would do on immigration in more detail. How would we make our proposals to the EU, what is the proposal that we are determined they would accept. That greater detail will start to show people we are serious about the issue.
What sort of things would you want to see him say? My proposition is very simple. They either grant us the right to control our own borders or we take the right to control our own borders. We take that right by amending the 1972 european communities act. As soon as we've got control of our own borders back we then put in a sensible and fair policy towards the rest of the EU along with the rest of the world. I would start from the proposition that… we should have the same immigration policy for all parts of the world.
If it were a possibility, do you think it would be a mistake to go back into coalition with the Lib Dems? Of course! Unless they completely change their mind. [But] they may not be in a position to enter such situations.
Will we see further defections now? I have no idea. I would urge them not to defect, it's pretty hurtful to them and our general cause.
What would you say to a potential defector? I'm sure they'd be genuine people... defying whips [on points of principle and Eurosceptic votes], and I would say: “What is the benefit of you changing your party label? You've already been voting and speaking with your conscience under the Conservatives, why not stay and help us to win [a referendum] for real by being part of a majority government?”
These are quite positive messages. Do you think the Conservative campaign in Rochester and Strood was too negative? Do you think it could have sold the benefits of the Conservatives more? Well, maybe. I was not part of forming the arguments for the by-election... I think we are better when we are positive. I feel very positive about a majority Conservative government. [It's the] only way I can see of sorting out the European issue, continuing the economic recovery and dealing with the problem of England. I think the problem of England could have had greater prominence. It's very interesting [that] the problem of England has been giving prominence inadvertently by Emily Thornberry. The thing she seems to have objected to, looking at the photograph, is three England flags... When I see England flags my heart is warmed.
We should also be the party that wants to right the wrongs of England. England has been quiet and tolerant... since Labour introduced lopsided devolution. Now, with Scotland, we are going to have more devolution, and England, but a vast majority agrees with me, that it is time England had a fairer deal. It is my party's policy to do that.
Has the rise of Ukip been a good thing, from your perspective, in highlighting these issues? No, it hasn't been good from my perspective at all. I deeply the resent the notion it was Ukip that got the change in European policy rather than Conservative MPs. I know how the change took place—it took place in the Bloomberg speech long before Carswell or Reckless decided to change [parties]. Indeed, Mr Carswell went out far more fanatically for the Bloomberg speech when we secured it than I did. He thought it was liberation. He thought it was freedom day. and that was achieved by a group of Conservative MPs, of which I was one, working away for two years, mainly in private, meeting with the Prime Minister and others, explaining how crucial this was and how we needed to make these changes and how immigration was one of them. We said look, you've got this Conservative pledge that because of the coalition we may not be able to deliver and this has to be part of the package.
Ukip are the response to the phenomenon that we have highlighted and are seeking to amend from within. The way you amend it is by having enough votes in the House of Commons... We have a number of improvements on party policy from our actions with about 100 of us ready to vote that way when the moment comes.
So why don't voters recognise your achievements? I'm telling you what's going on, but if you just rely on the media [it] is much more heavily influenced by Mr Farage than us. He has just won two by-elections, and that gives him authority. A lot of it is written from the Ukip perspective. I understand that. I am not complaining about that, but it does not mean it's true.
